1. Conversation between Vlatko Chingoski and Nikola Gruevski
NG: Hello, how are you?
VCh: Fine, I’m fine, President, how are you?
NG: Are you here or on vacation?
VCh: I’m here, I’m here, at work, I’m working.
NG: Yesterday I met the guy from Kratovo.
NG: The guy from Kratovo.
VCh: The guy from Kratovo!? Aaa, yes, yes, OK, OK. I understand.
NG: You met him, too.
VCh: Yes, we met, we talked, I gave him some ideas.
NG: You also met the guy….
VCh: From Bitola, right?
NG: …who has a car Seat Ibiza, you know? Seat, Seat Ibiza.
VCh: Yes, yes, OK, OK.
NG: I met both of them…
NG: ...to help them somehow...
VCh: So, today….
NG: They are fooling them… they say probably the guy, Strasho and the guy from Bitola will be…
VCh: Yes, about that, yes. They will put in a bid there for sure, but I told him that he is free to put in a bid, to form a consortium and to apply.
NG: It is better for you to organize it, to be predictive. They are confused…
NG: They don’t know what to do. I think you should meet them and to organize the job so that everyone is satisfied.
VCh: Aha. Did the guy from Berovo come?
NG: Because you know why the guy from Kratovo is so important to us?
VCh: Yes, yes, that’s clear to me.
NG: So, you can’t choose this or that thing.
VCh: That’s right. He called me…
NG: You… it is going on, right? Because of that…
VCh: Good, good.
NG: I have nothing else to talk to him about.
VCh: Good, good. Strasho came?
NG: We have an excellent collaboration with him and it’s not good to exclude him now.
NG: The guy with the car.
VCh: OK, OK, yes. Mmm, what did I want to ask you!? Strasho met you, they told me, too.
NG: No, he is lying.
VCh: He is lying!?
VCh: Eee, OK, OK. I’ll call Goran once again, we’ll talk a little to see what…
NG: Here, at, at… KB.
NG: At KB.
VCh: OK. Hello? Hello? Hello?
NG: Can you hear me?
VCh: No, I can’t hear you.
NG: I can hear you well, I don’t know what’s the problem.
VCh: I can’t hear you, the last thing was something about KB and I didn’t hear more.
NG: Well, probably he met with KB. You know who KB is, right?
VCh: Yes, OK.
NG: I guess, because he is saying that he was…
NG: I guess he is saying that he met him, but he is saying that he met me.
VCh: OK, because I…
NG: But, never mind, we… I have nothing against him, I’m OK if he is, but also they should be in the game so that everyone is satisfied.
VCh: Yes, but that’s difficult. It is not mining slag, but coal delivery. There can’t be two different, one must be a consortium, a solid one. I talked to Goran, I explained that to him and that’s way I gave him some solution, to involve himself with someone, to make a good team. And he asked me for help. I talked with the friend of the guy from Berovo. He says how do I exclude him now and involve myself with the other one? I tell him if you want to get a job, I’m telling you how to get it, very simple. So I will have to…
NG: I don’t know, I’m not up to date… look, I’ll tell KB to communicate with you so that you can organize.
VCh: OK, that’ll work…
VCh: I spoke to KB, he went on holiday. You are planning to meet, I have several other things that we need to discuss a little…
NG: Where did KB go?
VCh: KB said he wouldn’t be here from tomorrow on.
NG: Well, you two meet tonight, now this afternoon.
VCh: I should talk to him, to meet him.. I spoke with him 10 minutes ago…
NG: I’ll call him now, I’ll advise him to meet you tonight.
VCh: OK, deal, deal. Either he can come at my place or I can go to his, whatever.
NG: OK, deal.
2. Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
NG: What are you doing?
МЈ: I’m good.
NG: Did you give me a list, was it for the railway?
NG: Do you have it, to send me? I forgot it at work.
МЈ: No, I don’t. I can organize to send it to you. Are you at home?
NG: Give it to… give it to… some of my guys, to Urko to bring it to me in a sealed envelope.
МЈ: OK, deal.
3. Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
NG: Mile, I’m looking at the thing you sent me. So, the first ones are from G, right?
NG: The second ones are from Ch.
NG: The third ones are form G, the G down.
МЈ: Yes, yes, yes.
NG: And the fourth ones are from A?
МЈ: Yes. Those four generally can.
NG: Yes. Is it possible here, must it be the first one or someone from inside, any of the four?
МЈ: The first one has dumping prices on four items and now it should be checked. I think he played a trick.
NG: That means that it can go to the second one, right?
МЈ: Well, yes. That’s why I thought we could meet for… right.
NG: OK, first advise me to know in what direction to think.
МЈ: But it needs to be as soon as possible, not at the last minute.
NG: Aha. OK.
МЈ: The situation is obvious, I made it short so that it is clear to you. However, the whole report is like that.
NG: So, you are sure that the first one has some problems, right?
МЈ: Yes, yes, I’m sure.
NG: So, there is a chance for the second one, but not for the third and the fourth one, right?
МЈ: Well, still…
МЈ: Well, the technical offer hasn’t been reviewed well yet.
NG: Is it reviewed for the second one?
МЈ: No, it hasn’t been reviewed for anyone. So, they are reviewed, but not fully. For all of them we have requested additional…. So…
NG: In substance, is it is possible if in the meantime we get in contact with some of them, later it might turn out that it can’t be done? It turns out it be just talk?
МЈ: Generally, the first two.
NG: So, it is very bad to talk to someone…
МЈ: Yes, yes, I know.
NG: … then to tell them: hey, it is nice that we talked, but you have some flaws there, it’s impossible. Then he will talk…
МЈ: The first two, generally, yes.
NG: And the fourth one, not possible?
МЈ: Yes, a little, yes…
NG: He is from A.
МЈ: Let me see a little, to tell you, I can’t like this.
NG: See and tell me, so he is not angry, you know.
МЈ: Deal, deal.
4. Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
NG: Come on, let’s finish this, if possible, with the façade of EVN and City Gallery, as a technical error.
МЈ: But, President, it isn’t possible. It needs an expansion of the permission, for which there is not in any law or regulation. So, it needs an extension of the permission.
NG: The municipality of Centar told him, if you, the committee approve…
МЈ: But there is no committee…
NG: …is a technical error, they will accept it, for both…
МЈ: But that’s nonsense. So, out of… extension of permission, it needs that literally.
NG: But you propose it, right?
МЈ: But that is change of the DUP. There isn’t such a technical error…
NG: The lady from the sector for urban planning in Centar has said no problem, give it to me and I’ll take care of it.
МЈ: What should we give them, I don’t know what to give them.
NG: What should Mile give, err, Koce, they?
Koce: Look, you can…
NG: But what should they give them, a letter?
Koce: An opinion.
NG: An opinion.
МЈ: What kind of an opinion should we give?
NG: An opinion. That you think it can be done that way.
МЈ: But President there is no legal possibility. So, extension of a permission. That is like changing a plan by an opinion.
NG: But I think you don’t bear the responsibility. You just give an opinion. The one accepting the opinion bears the responsibility.
МЈ: But, an opinion is impossible, President… so, I don’t know how to explain that to you. And to Koce, too, we had three meetings. So…
NG: Koce will request an opinion from you, he will propose it and he will request an opinion from you. You will give an opinion, and it can be interpreted that…the investor will request, yes.
МЈ: But, President, on the basis of…of…of a plan a certificate should be issued. So, the plan adopted at the municipality of Centar is for example with a gauge of 200 м². He requests 220 or 250…
NG: Hey, Mile, what you’re saying should be said by them, in the end they should sign, right? This opinion is nothing. Nobody will take responsibility for an opinion he gave.
МЈ: I don’t know what kind of an opinion. Let Koce say what kind of an opinion is to be given, I don’t know.
NG: He is saying Koce to tell what kind of an opinion…
МЈ: I’ll give an opinion.
NG: That it could be treated as a technical error.
МЈ: OK, I’ll say, I’ll sign, my responsibility.
NG: On Monday Koce will bring it at the meeting, but if you go on with this negative attitude, he will bring it in vain.
МЈ: No, but I’ll keep quiet at the meeting. I’ll say to be the way you think because I know to behave myself.
NG: Yes, of course. You’re trying to be something, not the opposite.
МЈ: OK, OK.
NG: If we can solve it that way and if she promises that it will be done that way, then done.
МЈ: OK, let them say what kind of an opinion they request.
NG: Because an opinion is an opinion, I at least I think so. You don’t need to compare if I think so, right?
МЈ: OK, OK.
NG: You are not the Parliament so that you can give authentic interpretation. You give your own opinion. Your opinion can be like this or like that, wrong-right, but you thought so.
NG: And she can decide if it is legal or not.
МЈ: OK, let them write what kind of an opinion.
NG: But don’t tell this to her. If you tell her so, she might get scared and say – aaa, if it is so, I might be guilty and she will not… she will quit.
NG: I think you don’t suffer guilt, you give an opinion. Tomorrow if they initiate a procedure, you’ll say – OK, that’s what we thought, if it is illegal, they weren’t supposed to do that, we are not a parliament to… interpret the law. We give our own opinion, this was our opinion. She shouldn’t have accepted the opinion.
NG: You opinion is not compulsory.
МЈ: OK, seriously, I don’t know what we’re going to do. Okay, I’m going to give an opinion, it’s not a problem, I’ll sign it personally.
NG: OK, OK, OK, bye.
5. Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
NG: You’re not supposed to give an opinion, but your committee…..
МЈ: What committee?
NG: What committee, Koce?... An appeal something…
МЈ: But, hm… that’s second instance, so, that is when you have an administrative act, it is not…
NG: That’s called second instance, when you have an administrative act. On Monday deal with it, but if you find a trick to make it possible and if she accepts…
МЈ: No problem, I’ll give an opinion, I told you.
NG: …at the municipality of Centar if she accepts to sign, whoever gives the opinion there is not… there is not a responsibility.
МЈ: No, it is okay.
NG: …criminal responsibility, because it is just an opinion.
МЈ: We agreed, when I promise you, it’s not a problem, I’ll do it. But…
NG: I don’t want you to think that I’m making you commit a crime…
МЈ: No, no, I understand that, I understand…
NG: I would never ever make you sign something that you can go to jail for that.
МЈ: No, no, I have no doubts.
NG: I think that no one can go to jail for an opinion.
МЈ: President, no problem. So, I told you as Koce wants, I’ll sign it personally. They make it as they want, I’ll sign it.
6. Conversation between Gordana Jankuloska and Zoran Stavreski
ZS: Can you imagine what message I got last night, I was so pissed off that I wanted to grab the phone and break his head.
GJ: I’m telling you…
ZS: He’s making us do something illegal. Not me, Vlado and Mile have to sign with the Chinese and they don’t want to sign. They’re right for not wanting to.
GJ: Yes, of course.
ZS: Now instead of discussing that with them, now they’re fooling him, I’m the messenger, he’s calling me, why this is like this, why this is like that, it isn’t signed. I’m explaining to him why it isn’t signed and I’m writing to him in the message and I think that the people are right. And he’s replying the great experts, the great law experts Mile and Vlado, and you too as an experienced lawyer came to a conclusion that it is, and he was talking nonsense.
GJ: Nonsense. He says that it is OK, then he should sign it.
ZS: Even if we are not right, listen, even if we are not right, is this the way to deal with three of your associates?
GJ: Yes, of course. But it isn’t only that, if someone feels uncomfortable, then there is something.
ZS: That’s right. I’ll say again, that’s a crazy message. It’s like, a man who’s lost contact with reality. It is not all right, you can’t insult like that.
GJ: Yes, yes, I’m referring to the end.
ZS: If I’m not an experienced lawyer, I’ve been working on issues for 6 years, I can evaluate.
ZS: Do you know what they should sign now? A contract with a Chinese company which will be building roads without a tender. That’s what these people should sign.
GJ: Well, that’s not possible.
7. Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
NG: Mile, hello.
МЈ: How can I help you, I was driving that’s why I didn’t answer.
NG: What are you doing?
МЈ: I was driving, I was driving.
NG: Aaa, you were driving.
МЈ: Tell me.
NG: Tell me now about the “yellow”, what’s the dynamic? When are they coming, when are they putting in the offer and when are the negotiations?
МЈ: So, they are told on the 29th at 10 o’clock, we can prolong it. In principle, they are told to submit the offer by then.
NG: Not to prolong it, right? When do I have to do it last, when is my deadline to tell the things you ask from me, because I’m busy, I didn’t have time to tell you.
МЈ: Monday morning is fine, to tell him, so that they can have one or two day to include it.
NG: Both…both are coming then here?
МЈ: Both, both at the same time.
NG: Both. What’s the name of the second?
МЈ: The first one is Synohydro Corporation Limited, the second one is CWE, China International Water and Electric Corporation.
NG: C – W – E, right?
NG: Yes, I remembered now, that’s right, yes. Aaa, they are providing the offer at 10. What’s next? Right after, the same day are the negotiations?
МЈ: No, the last time it was, we considered them for 2-3 days and then we started discussing with them.
NG: And they are sitting and waiting here.
МЈ: Well, yes.
МЈ: They are here, the first ones are in Skopje, the second ones are in Belgrade. I’m thinking all the time…
NG: Don’t postpone for now. If I make it by tomorrow, if not, postpone again for another day.
NG: Because I’m very busy.
МЈ: Deal, deal.
NG: OK, bye.
МЈ: Goodbye, bye.
8. Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
NG: When last time Synohydro submitted…
NG: What they submitted, did we then reduce it during the negotiations or how was it?
МЈ: De facto it turned out that they didn’t have several items. We reduced it, but what we reduced later turned out that they overlooked it and it increased it… we ended up with more or less the same amount.
NG: But we are not obliged what they bring to us in writing and what we open to be final. We can then negotiate and reduce, right?
МЈ: Yes, yes. We did so last time.
NG: So, they give in writing, we open it and start negotiating.
МЈ: Yes. By items. So, we made a comparison, I don’t know the first-the second company – Coridor 10 prices and then a tender that the Agency for state roads had, that is Strumica-Radovish I and plus the Coridor 10, the reconstruction. So, we had items from the last several projects so that we can see where we were. It went an item by an item. That’s why I’m saying that some more skilled should see it. They worked for 2-3 day too, they gave us a report on the basis of which we negotiated.
NG: Okay. We focused only on one, on the cheaper one actually.
МЈ:. No, both. We worked on both, simultaneously.
NG: Aha. Good, okay, bye.
9. Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Interlocutor 1
Interlocutor 1: Hello?
МЈ: In accordance with the project...
Interlocutor 1: Yes?
МЈ: What was your final price?
Interlocutor 1: According to… we’re talking about Kichevo-Ohrid, right?
Interlocutor 1: Now, let me see, now, minister, let me see. Oho. Just a second. According to the project as I can see, the price estimation is…was…look, because the project is done…200…around 193 millions, we are talking euros. 193 million euros by project. However, because the projects were done from 2002 to 2009, they set a correction coefficient, let’s say raising of the prices inside and it turned out around 267 million, approximately.
МЈ: 267 million euros, right?
Interlocutor 1: Yes, approximately. Now, minister, if some measuring was omitted by accident. So, I checked the cases again, so this one ZIM is a disaster. So, we tried to fix them, they will deliver to us, they told us, they promised us that they will deliver to us everything completely done. But I think it is around 270 to 280 millions.
МЈ: 270 millions, right?
Interlocutor 1: Yes.
10. Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Interlocutor 1
Interlocutor 1: Yes, hello. Hello?
Interlocutor 1: Yes?
МЈ: Do you have the 12 bridges in those 270 which you additionally submitted to the companies?
Interlocutor 1: Yes, yes, yes. There are, as far as I can see, 30 buildings, there are 30 viaducts.
МЈ: So, everything is included and according to you it is 270 millions, right?
Interlocutor 1: That’s right, yes, around, now minister, I might be wrong about 10 millions, but that’s it, now me, yes, that’s it. So, there are 30 buildings which are higher than 150 meters, so thirty… now I sent it to you on e-mail.
МЈ: Louis Berger, what was the estimation of Louis Berger?
Interlocutor 1: Uh, I’ll check it now… Louis Berger…Here I have…
МЈ: What did you send, what did you send me on e-mail?
Interlocutor 1: Now I sent you… Vlado asked me to take out the design prices for all the sections. So..
МЈ: You sent me design prices on e-mail.
Interlocutor 1: Yes, yes, yes, I sent it two minutes ago.
МЈ: And this, A up, A total, project up, what’s this up?
Interlocutor 1: UP, unit price, and…that’s UP unit price, then a total.
МЈ: And company A?
Interlocutor 1: Yes, yes, I don’t know the companies. Company A, company B.
МЈ: OK, bye.
Interlocutor 1: Bye.
11. Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
NG: Mile, what are you doing?
МЈ: Good, we are at Kire’s.
МЈ: At Kire’s, Kire.
NG: A, OK. How much do you propose for this?
МЈ: 5 for the whole.
NG: What 5 for the whole?
NG: No, no, in actual figures, how much?
МЈ: Well, it depends how much it will be, between 15 and 18.
NG: With them did you discuss it as percentage or as an actual amount?
МЈ: Well, they mentioned that… and generally, it is OK like this. 5 for the accepted offer. It depends on the offer, but it would be between 15 and 18 according to some projections how much they would offer.
NG: Will they accept that much?
МЈ: If we tell them, they will accept, yes, it’s nothing. And the same goes for the other one.
NG: Isn’t it a lot? What if we go too far, the press will overreact?
МЈ: I followed the same analogy of the last one… and…and they mentioned it on one occasion…But three…three is quite correct.
NG:. Mhm. Try with 15 to see how they will react, then call me.
12. Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Vladimir Peshevski
МЈ: I don’t know if the boss called you, but he called me.
МЈ: And he says to call them. The two companies.
VP: Aaa… the one who was looking for the Chinese here?
МЈ: I don’t know, Vlado, I saw him, I thought he was with you.
VP: Where was he?
МЈ: What? I was waiting in front of Kire’s door and he rushed out of…what’s the name…bilateral…he go out from that door.
VP: So he was at the boss’.
МЈ: I don’t know where he was. Maybe he was there.
VP: Where are you now?
МЈ: At Kire’s. Where are you?
VP: In the office.
МЈ: We’re coming there in two minutes.
13. Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
NG: Kire called me.
МЈ: Let’s meet for two minutes.
NG: I’m busy. The main question would be whether both or one. Is that so?
МЈ: Yes, and whether before or after? I had some dilemmas with Vlado and Kire.
NG: Look, you can’t after. What was last time? Was it before?
МЈ: After. Can you give me just two minutes?
NG: I can’t, I’m busy. People are waiting for me, I’m two hours late, I’m late for the Serbians. Aaa, I think both because it will cause imbalance. The first one will go higher, the second one will go lower and in fact in the end it will go wrong, understand.
NG: The second concept was to see how much their differences are, if they are big, then both out, in case tomorrow go to other places and so on. That dilemma.
NG: What if the one you talked to turns out worse?
МЈ: No, but…
NG: What are you going to do then?
МЈ: If we see, we will know what’s the difference. The difference might be bigger than that. From that aspect.
NG: Look with one of them, you already talked to them, right?
МЈ: Yes, yes, with one of them, yes.
NG: Can you talk there?
NG: Now you think whether you can talk to the other one?
МЈ: Yes. Vlado, too, mentioned that.
NG: Ok, if it is so and we screw this one, it turns out to be weaker, how are we going to deal with it?
МЈ: No, the idea is if we go after to see, if the differences are above that to…not with both. Because the perception is that these give lower price than the others.
NG: But that was last time, now it might not turn out like that.
МЈ: That’s right, no one can…
NG: I think both. Just very carefully, on the side.
NG: In my opinion, that is more correct, so that we don’t get into a tangle where we can’t untangle.
МЈ: Fine, fine.
NG: Do you have another question?
МЈ: That’s it.
NG: That’s the main.
NG: Okay. Carefully, with chosen words…
NG: So they can’t… if…
МЈ: Okay, okay.
NG: If you are on something, so it won’t be clear, you know… Only me, I kind of fear because they are somewhat big, that from the last time and this one together, they seem big…
14. Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
NG: Why did you hang up, Mile?
МЈ: It hung up, I said hello, hello, there was nothing.
NG: A. When I compare it from the last time and this now, it looks nasty and I’m saying to myself if they screw us then, I don’t know, ha? I guess, they won’t.
МЈ: It shouldn’t’ be like that.
NG: Talk, then tell me. After every new moment call me.
NG: So, every, now and in the upcoming days so that we don’t do a stupid thing, like…like the last time, this much - that much. OK.
МЈ: OK. Bye.
15. Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Interlocutor 2
Interlocutor 2: Yes.
Interlocutor 2: Yes, tell me.
МЈ: Both companies are in Macedonia?
Interlocutor 2: Both, yes. The first ones are here, the others came for these 2-3 days and are returning to China. That’s what they said.
МЈ: Tell the first ones to come at 8, the other ones at 8:30 at Vlado’s.
Interlocutor 2: Tomorrow morning?
МЈ: No, tonight.
Interlocutor 2: But without offers, right?
МЈ: Yes, without.
Interlocutor 2: OK. I’ll tell them now.
МЈ: Okay, let them come.
Interlocutor 2: Deal.
16. Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
NG: Mile, I thought. Maybe it is better to be careful with what you say. Hello?
МЈ: Yes, yes, I’m listening to you.
NG: Maybe better, more carefully. Tonight tell those with who we did it last time, you are good with them.
NG: Then, if they are weaker, we will be pushing the others down, you know.
NG: We will have to tell the others go down, go down so less form these come.
NG: It is good if they are not seen immediately. When they deliver a small number to be seen, not everyone there.
МЈ: No, we overcame it well. They will deliver them to Ljupcho directly, then we will determine what… Vlado thinks…
NG: Why Ljupcho?, Ljupcho…what, what Ljupcho?!
МЈ: They can leave them to us.
NG: Tell them to leave those to you, look there and tell us what’s going on, to see. Ljupcho?!
МЈ: Vlado thought to call them and to show him on paper, without discussion, to both.
NG: Now I thought, not to both.
NG: You were right when you suggested to me before. We go for the one we know, what’s the name, I don’t know it, you know it and don’t mention it to me now.
NG: Aaa, to play the game from the last time, and you are right, the other one will talk to the guy they have here, they have someone here, right?
NG: Then he will send letters, I don’t know where.
МЈ: Okay. Deal.
17. Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Interlocutor 2
Interlocutor 2: Minister, Synohydro is coming at 8, CWE at 8:30 are there.
МЈ: Cancel CWE, only Synohydro.
Interlocutor 2: Only Synohydro?
Interlocutor 2: Good, OK.
МЈ: Tell them we will call them additionally, if there’s a need.
Interlocutor 2: OK, all right. Tell them we will call them additionally, if there’s need.
18. Conversation between Mile Janakieski and his wife
Wife: Hello, are you near or not?
МЈ: Mnjmnjmnjmnjmnjmnjmnjmnjmnj. Hello?
Wife: Are you near or not, ha?
Wife: Are you near…
МЈ: Mnjmnjmnjmnj. Hahahahaha.
Wife: Come on. What are you doing, where are you?
МЈ: We started speaking Chinese.
Wife: Go to bed, don’t fool around, what are you doing?
МЈ: We’re negotiating.
МЈ: That’s it.
Wife: It’s 2 in the morning, what are you doing?
МЈ: Sanja, we have to deal, they’re leaving at 5. What can I say.
Wife: What do you have to?
МЈ: They’re leaving at 5.
Wife: So, you’re staying till 5?
МЈ: Sanja, we planned, we consult, we have to pay, we are going back to the boss, then they ahead, then they called China, then we waited for their boss to wake up, what to say. Now he woke up.
Wife: But why… they came just for a day?
МЈ: No, Sanja, you saw when I came yesterday. I’ve been dealing with them this whole week. Today it’s the last.
Wife: For God’s sake, tomorrow when you are going to work, what are you going to do?
МЈ: We’ll see that later on. I hope…
Wife: OK, bye.