1. Conversation between Gordana Jankuloska and Zoran Stavreski
ZS: It’s not a problem for me to pay 9 million, 10 million, or even 20 million, but at the same time I have Mile, a payment order for 300 million for the busses, this is the second time we are paying...
GJ: Yes, of course.
ZS: ... we paid 700 [million] already, you know. Imagine having to pay one billion within only one month.
GJ: Yes, yes. I understand the situation.
ZS: The revenues are disastrous. I scorned Goran the other day and told him: come one, start [inspection of] fiscal cash registers, nobody’s paying, or go fuck yourself, I can’t do this anymore… He’s wrecking my nerves, really… he’s full of lies.
GJ: You know I call you only when I’m in big trouble...
ZS: He’ll promise you everything, but deliver nothing. Everything with him is, aha, aha, we are waiting...
GJ: About this person, in two days, the deadline, the procedure...
ZS: We have entered there and there; we even have the findings, blah blah, on 25th, on 23rd, everything [with him] is in future tense. And when the deadline expires, mother fuckers, they lied to me, they screwed this thing, blah blah, again - nothing.
GJ: I told you so; we talked about this before.
ZS: Yes, yes.
GJ: You know that unless I’m in big trouble, like today, I wouldn’t call you, because I know that I don’t need to call you ten times to say that I have a problem with “Makpetrol”, you know...
ZS: To make matters worse, I have these Letters of Information from the Government, I just signed 200 Letters of Information, for the commission in district one. You know Gorde, it seems like these people are idiots, I mean, OK, I’ll do it sometimes, but they always present me with cases that have fiscal implications. You know how unnerving that is; it’s like you are talking to a bunch of idiots.
GJ: And there are constant set-ups. Whoever’s not attending government’s session, let’s set them up...
ZS: 80 million. 60 million. 42 million. As if this is a piece of cake, as if I’m growing money on trees. It can’t be like this; it’s becoming unbearable.
GJ: Yesterday when you were in Demir Kapija, I...
ZS: Every penny I manage to save from the 5 million, costs me great deal of nerves.
GJ: And on top of that, you will be the culprit.
ZS: This can no longer be sustained. We owe more and more money by the minute. I told him a 100 times: this can no longer be sustained. It’s enough. Mother fucker...
GJ: We are all over the place. And new megalomaniac projects emerge all the time. I got into an argument with Mile yesterday, while you were in Demir Kapija.
ZS: He’s one of the biggest bastards.
2. Conversation between Gordana Jankuloska and Zoran Stavreski
GJ: Where do these 600 million come from, because we were told to cut 300 million.
ZS: Well, I don’t know. I’m just telling you what Eli wrote to me. 29 percent of your budget positions: 42, 46 and 48.
GJ: Exactly, but we have cut around 16 percent. So, we need to again cut down approximately 14, 15 [percent]. If we have cut down by 180 million, now we need to cut another 180.
ZS: What’s the sum of your budget positions 42, 46 and 48? Multiply that sum with 0.29.
GJ: But, there’s another thing. I think, OK, if this is the only mathematical operation, we’ll cut and that’s it. With the new cuts, our budget for utility services is already zero. 70 percent of that budget item has already been spent. When you cut the total sum by 30 and have spent 70, you arrive to zero. I mean, realistically, we wouldn’t be able to pay for electricity, telephone, or anything else [until the end of the budget year]. Let’s see and figure out what to do. It would be better to cut down on salaries.
ZS: Let’s cut them. Cut down salaries. I don’t know what to do. I’m not a magician to be able to make something out of nothing.
GJ: I know Zoki, that is why I’m saying. So, if I can’t cut on salaries, if I can’t cut on something else, we’ll bring everything down to zero and won’t finish our work. By the by, why are we beating our head against the wall? Let’s cut on salaries and get it over with, the whole world is doing it.
ZS: Gorde this should be discussed in government, not only with me.
GJ: No, it’s OK. I mean, I’m discussing it with you because we opened the issue, otherwise we can’t…
ZS: Simply put: You can’t not cut just because there is no money in the budget. I can sit idle and not rebalance the budget, and the payment orders will sit unpaid at the treasury for next 6 months.
GJ: I know.
ZS: They will lambaste me but nothing will be changed in practice. You will not pay because you can’t pay, either way.
GJ: Yes, it will only get worse.
ZS: When the money is not there, it’s not there.
GJ: I understand you.
ZS: Everybody will call you, but this way, when they know there is no money, there’s no money and that’s it.
GJ: Look, here, we will cut on utility costs. But it’s better to cut on salaries than on utilities. Every day EVN is threatening to disconnect the electricity supply.
ZS: All right then, propose [payment] in a timely manner.
GJ: Not a single account...
ZS: Fire 500 people from the administration you don’t need and done deal.
GJ: Well, we should either fire people or cut on their salaries. It’s no tragedy to have you salary reduced by 5 percent, or even by 10 percent, at times of crisis.
ZS: Nothing is a tragedy. It’s a tragedy is when [Ministry of] Culture consumes 5 percent of the Budget. That’s a tragedy! And Stole Popov’s movie is our tragedy.
GJ: Really, that’s... Any normal person would understand, would say: 5 percent is OK, I still have my job, you know.
GJ: You cannot beat your head against the wall, I mean, I’m just talking with you. I’m more in favour of cutting salaries, even cutting the number of people, if needed, but let’s see if we can function with that. What will the police do without money for gas, without money for reagents? What will they do? Sit in their office without electricity?
ZS: Good, but don’t ignore the problem. Now you have sent me something we have not agreed on and what am I to do? If you feel that way, pick up the phone and ask for meeting, explain yourself, and then propose what you get as directions.
GJ: Yes, of course.
ZS: Don’t propose something I can’t deliver, because now it turns that I am to be blamed for everything in the state. I am the one who speaks about all bad things; I am the one who announces them; I am the one who should realize them.
GJ: No Zoki, you don’t need to tell them.
ZS: Here, I’ll pick up the phone and I’ll argue over it with Saso.
GJ: If I have the possibility I’ll say it, but I don’t have the possibility to speak.
ZS: You haven’t tried. You know whether you have the possibility only after you try.
GJ: I haven’t tried, because...
ZS: Just as Nino did, you can try as well.
GJ: Because, there was no patience for a thousand other cases. Here, I’ll call now and ask for a meeting on this topic.
ZS: I can’t plan the budgets for all the ministries. Nobody wants to face the reality in this country.
GJ: Well I don’t know. See if any other [ministry] has come down to zero after cutting down their budget items, and then let’s see whether we are facing the reality.
ZS: All right. OK.
GJ: What’s OK? [Ministry of] Health announced the tender for a campaign, for commercials. [Ministry of] Culture spent 260 thousand euros on a spot. I don’t have expenditure like that.
3. Conversation between Zoran Stavreski and Gordana Jankuloska
ZS: I can’t think. I’m going mad with this. It’s unbearable. You know, I’m injecting artificial revenue, which is a total sham, what can I say, how am I to put it together [the budget].
GJ: Yes, yes. And again you’ll hear: why this here….
ZS: And again, I’ll be faced with: why there is no money for ‘air pollution’, for ‘I don’t know what’. If you only knew everything that was packed in the budget, ccc…
GJ: It’s unimaginable Zoki. We are cutting now, like the gypsies: 2 million here, 3 million there. Gypsy’s business. So, that’s how far we have come. But on the other hand, we are binding the books with gold.
ZS: These people… once they come to beg for budget funds, they tell you all sorts of things. If you only knew what additional things they are telling me, what they have been told. He has commissioned 100 paintings, similar to those at the museum, but now for the Museum of Archaeology.
ZS: OK Gorde, I mean, tell me: am I insane or don’t know what to… I mean…
GJ: Yesterday I, you know about this police station. You should have seen how happy the people were, they were rejoicing like children for having ceramic tiles in the bathroom and windows that actually close. That’s what we’ve come to.
ZS: And he laughs at me for having said that...
GJ: They told him in person, but they still sleep in iron beds, with blankets holding insignia from YNA. (Yugoslav National Army)
4. Conversation between Gordana Jankuloska and Zoran Stavreski
ZS: Look, I have a much bigger problem with these meetings, because everybody - to avoid being pressured and pointed to as the culprit - transfer their problems to others and there’s no overview there, all the time it’s this and that, that and this, I mean… Second thing. OK, brother, let’s buy what we need and do what’s needed, but don’t erect monuments and buildings.
GJ: Zoki do you know how big is the plan they presented? 300-400 million EUR.
ZS: I know, I know.
GJ: I mean...
ZS: I know. Everything is clear to me...
GJ: Yes, yes. I mean, what I’m telling you is a small thing, I mean, I can finish it, so that it won’t fall on your back. I’ll call the people, will hold a meeting, we’ll see what it is about… but, about that other thing, no comment.
ZS: Yes, OK.
GJ: and that’s...today. I’m dealing with Centar.
GJ: What? About that.
ZS: Why are we making fools of ourselves there...
GJ: Orav just called me. What can I say? He says…
ZS: We’re doing foolish things, but...
GJ: He was about to depart somewhere for the weekend.
ZS: Yesterday I had the opportunity to see how others think, so I have no doubt about what this is. Overinflated ego... And second, allegedly we didn’t lose; we’ll crush him. OK, all right. It’s not a problem.
GJ: But, now I’m in the hot seat.
ZS: In time they will realize that this is wrong, but for now, OK.
GJ: Yes, of course. He asked me: what’s this; they are fighting with the police outside the municipality, Kire called me, this and that, the policeman kicked them [protesters] and luckily it ended as it did…
ZS: I’m losing you.
GJ: It might be the building insulation. Luckily, I mean, the police didn’t overreact, it’s not like that, we reacted, and then I wrote him a message, cause you know, I have to manage him somehow. He said he was headed for the weekend on Friday, and in the afternoon was called by Brussels: what’s going on. I mean, he said, what VMRO is doing has not been seen anywhere, this and that… I tell him: look, as Minister of Interior I can tell you, we are doing what falls within police competences, I don’t know, this and this, professional, blah blah. But I think he knows what this is about, moreover, because he…
ZS: Stand in one place, don’t move around…
GJ: I’m in one place, but apparently the wrong one.
ZS: I’m losing you, here, I lost you again. As if you’re speaking from a well.
GJ: I’m sorry.
ZS: Now I hear you.
GJ: I have stood up. I’m talking on my feet. Before, I was sitting down.
ZS: Then, stand while you’re speaking.
GJ: While I’m speaking with you...
ZS: Look, in the end the situation will be like Erdogan, this and that, and they’ll be fed up…
GJ: Yes, of course.
ZS: They’ll say: all right now, go fuck yourself, you’re constantly creating problems. We can’t be in the right all the time.
GJ: No, but for this, he was really pissed and told me: what you are doing is the last thing you need.
5. Conversation between Zoran Stavreski and Gordana Jankuloska
GJ: To tell you the truth, I’m fed up.
ZS: Don’t say.
GJ: With the election and with everything. To hell with it, you know.
ZS: We’re exhausted. If you knew what kind of message I received last night, I was so fed up I wanted to grab the phone and smash it on his head.
GJ: I tell you...
ZS: He’s making us do something illegal. Mile and Vlado, not me, should sign with the Chinese, but they don’t want to sign. And they’re right not to want to.
GJ: No doubt.
ZS: Now, instead of settling it with them, and instead of them announcing it, I am now the messenger. He calls me: why this, why that, it’s not signed. I explained how things stand, and wrote him a message, and I think the people are right. He writes back: “hot shot experts” those Mile and Vlado, yet me, and even you, as an experienced lawyer, have arrived at the conclusion..
GJ: Nonsense. Whoever says it’s OK, he should sign it.
ZS: Even if we’re wrong, look even if we’re wrong, is that how you address three of your associates?
GJ: Yes, yes, but not only that. If somebody feels uncomfortable, it means something is wrong.
ZS: Right. The message is still out of line, like, from a person who has lost touch with reality. It’s not OK, you can’t insult people like that.
GJ: Yes, I mean, the bottom line is…
ZS: Although I’m not an experienced lawyer, I have been working for six years on this issue, I know how to assess [a situation].
ZS: You know what they need to sign? A contract with a Chinese company that will build the roads, without going to a tender. That’s what these people are told to sign.
GJ: You can’t do that.
6. Conversation between Gordana Jankuloska and Zoran Stavreski
ZS: Nothing important, I just called to ask if you are going to Butel, but...
GJ: Well, no...
ZS: ...you were tasked with another place.
GJ: ...they have put me down for Dolneni, yes.
GJ: What can I say? And you, what are you doing?
ZS: Nothing. The chief summoned me to explain something, the EU person is suing. Orav, that bastard. He doesn’t like us at all.
GJ: What’s wrong with him?
ZS: He motioned a lawsuit against [Ministry of] Finance, because the IPA funds that remain unspent are the fault of [Ministries of] Finance and Environmental Protection. Hillbilly.
GJ: He is one frustrated man.
ZS: Yes, because I don’t listen to them. And second, they offered budget support in the amount of 20 million EUR, imagine, because they want access to treasury and dig (for information)
GJ: Not only that.
ZS: the arrears – unpaid debts.
GJ: That’s not all. He’s frustrated for not being able to exert any influence, act from the position of an authority and it seems they are pushing him on that basis, because nobody likes us there.
ZS: They don’t want us there at all and are poisonous all the time. But, in essence, they are nothing more than corrupted bastards for tenders.
GJ: Of course, that’s right.
7. Conversation between Zoran Stavreski and Gordana Jankuloska
ZS: Gorde, what’s are you doing?
GJ: Watching the news.
ZS: I just finished 15 minutes ago, came to the office and now I’m on my way home. I am so pissed off with this bastard from Bitola, Vlado Talevski, mother fucker.
GJ: What happened, Zoki?
ZS: He’s made a scandal with these transport companies. I’ll tell you what.
GJ: Imagine their stupidity.
ZS: It was turned into quite a situation. Until June 2010, a contact has been signed with “Transcop”, fully corrupt, where the transportation cost per student is 10 times higher than the prices set later, i.e. the prices agreed later with the private transport companies. In 2010, Municipal Council Members from the opposition pressured him into changing the contractor and he announced the tender, with participation of private transportation companies...
GJ: If it’s a tender, the cheapest bidder wins.
ZS: ... and they lowered the price in the ratio 1 to 10 for some locations and, 1 to 5 and even 1 to 3 for other locations.
GJ: Yes of course.
ZS: Now this bastard, to cover up his crime, is pushing it, because the debt towards “Transcop” by 2010 is around 36 million and 22 million towards the private companies. Now he’s demanding, through ZELS, and with support from Koce of course, that the Ministry of Finance cover his debts.
GJ: Koce regularly supports shady businesses like that and doesn’t miss an opportunity to set you up.
ZS: I have sent people there. Second, you know, on his own account, the regular account, he has 60 million MKD and on the account for earmarked grants intended for salaries and running costs he has 16 million, so after having paid the salaries, he has a surplus of 16 million MKD, meaning he can cover most of the debt from that account. Instead, he pressured Pance - but only after letting the transport companies organize a press conference imagine - to make a statement...
GJ: OK, I watched that.
ZS: ... for the media that the Ministry of Education was not given enough money from the Ministry of Finance. In that, all these people, I mean the transportation companies, they are all ours. On his request.
GJ: Of course. They didn’t get the contracts by accident.
ZS: In the meantime, he had sent around 50 texts to the chief, even earlier. I told him, remember the other day when he was in the Government, I didn’t want to look at him.
GJ: Yes, yes, yes.
ZS: And I told Pance, you call him, because if I call him I’ll fuck his mother, I can’t keep it together on the phone. I just called Kire Bozinovski to pressure him, because the bastard is playing dirty. He is, that is… On top of being incapable, he is also a hard-core criminal and perfidious actor, a faker.
GJ: That’s his profession. That’s what I wanted to say. He’s a skilled actor.
GJ:. He’s a bluffer, professional. Others bluff as well, but are not skilled; he’s a professional, that’s his profession.
ZS: Yes. Bastards. That’s whom we are dealing with...
GJ: And to think how much we helped them.
ZS: I’m fighting everybody in the Parliament, including the commies, and on top of all the support he enjoys, the bastard organizes a press conference against us, he organizes a press against me.
8. Conversation between Gordana Jankuloska and Zoran Stavreski
GJ: Hello? Hello?
ZS: A consultation. I’m a little angry.
ZS: He hasn’t arrived from Turkey yet and I get a message: Zoran what did Dane do today for you to attack him so much? Something… about
GJ: My goodness.
ZS: Dane from the State Lottery, the one that has got away with a million things I have disagreed with...
GJ: Yes, I know.
ZS: ...today he attempted to get his million and first thing through and was yelling at Lile, whom I wanted to protect, and then something inside me snapped, because he said something like: If you can’t do it for me, if this thing cannot be resolved in this manner, then the Government should give me money. That’s when I snapped and called him things in high-pitch voice. I told him: if you don’t like your job, resign, somebody else can do it or maybe the project has failed and we will not listen to the same tune over and over again. I put him in his place…
GJ: Yes, of course.
ZS: ...to behave in such manner during the committee session. The bastard immediately sent a text and from all…
ZS: ...possible priorities in the state, the first thing he does after arriving from Turkey, he tells me: Zoran, thank you for keeping the fortress tight while I was…
GJ: Of course, from the million problems, I mean, this period was so tense, so tight...
ZS: But I’m fed up, it’s same with what he does to you, you know, you… you…. He immediately assumes the position that the other side is right, and you are to be blamed. I would have appreciated if he stood behind us once, just once.
GJ: Yes, what did I tell you yesterday, I mean... You heard how nervous I was. I mean, really, he is...
ZS: Now, I’m writing him a message, to explain, justify myself, but all I want to say is you mother fucker....
GJ: Together with Dane.
ZS: To hell with everything and to hell with Dane. You sit here and do the work. I don’t have to do your work, if you don’t like it.
GJ: No, but this really is too much.
ZS: Fucking Dane, fuckking bastards.
GJ: In the end, if Dane is good to you, let him do the work, why should you. Put Dane on it and done deal.
ZS: Everybody is right. He’s right from the start, but now I have to justify myself. I am put in a defensive position.
GJ: I understand. And now…. look, the worst thing is that you don’t get a chance to explain as any normal person. You need to explain yourself in SMS.
ZS: SMS, imagine, he wrote me an SMS .. he couldn’t hold it inside…. A terrible thing has happened: Dane had been insulted.
GJ: Complete misery, mark my words.
9. Conversation between Zoran Stavreski and Gordana Jankuloska
ZS: I told him yesterday, I said: you should come earlier, come at noon. Can’t do, why should we wait for them, although he previously said don’t keep them waiting, it’s a shame for us. They’re waiting, I tell him, because you should come at noon, they’re waiting for you, for you to call them, it’s not up to us.
GJ: Yes, yes. At the end of the day, we already went through all agenda items.
ZS: I mean, as if this person...
GJ: Like we are the culprits. On top of that, it’s a shame for us, but he pities them. Why doesn’t he pity us?
ZS: Yes, he also wrote, it’s disgraceful for Valentina Bozinovska not to have central heating. While we were in the Government, he said he was with Valentina, she didn’t have money for central heating; it’s a shame at this time and age not to have central heating. I told him yes, I agree that it’s a shame not to have central heating, but I have said many times that there are problems with all utility services and at all institutions. Valentina is not a single case. But, I told him: you don’t help me find solutions. Oh c’mon fuck everything.
GJ: He should solve his own problems.
ZS: He just now realized the problem, imagine, just imagine? Valentina had a problem, it’s a shame. OK brother, it’s a shame; then cut the funds for Vasil Donevski...
GJ: And leaving us to wonder how to pay the salaries is not a shame?
ZS: No, it’s not a shame, because you don’t yell and you don’t kneel there, and you don’t suck and you don’t cry every day.
GJ: Just last week, there were three headlines that MOI does not have money for salaries. It’s not that there’s no money, but...funds have not been collected to have the payment order realized.
ZS: He didn’t write me about that.
GJ: I’m not going to make a scandal out of that. I know what the problem is and I keep calm. I wait.
ZS: It’s his problem, but he is not concerned.
GJ: I have 11 and half thousand people.
ZS: On the other hand, I received messages about what we owe to “Beton”, to Vase Donevski. We owed “Beton”, right, but who do we not owe, you tell me brother?
GJ: On top of that, we’re still building, if possible, build something extra.
ZS: No, I mean, this really is disgusting. As soon as I start talking about it I want to vomit, if you believe me, in the Government.
10. Conversation between Gordana Jankuloska and Zoran Stavreski
GJ: What can I say, I mean it’s scary. When I see, the term used by the commies, “lost it”, seems the most adequate. Really, I mean, it’s original. But you see if you can somehow, I mean, I know you are exhausted…
ZS: I’ll present it, let him break his head, whatever happens, so be it.
GJ: Exactly. You have spent all your energy like, I don’t know, like you have singlehandedly dug up an entire stonepit, and just imagine how it will be in the Parliament. You don’t know which negotiations are more difficult.
ZS: To be honest, I don’t.
11. Conversation between Gordana Jankuloska and Zoran Stavreski
GJ: Let this year pass. Next year will be better. But it’s not better. We are only dragging our tails.
ZS: Gorde, even if it is better, we always add things, non-stop, so many costs and liabilities,that there’s no normal country in the world, even if we were America, we would not be able to sustain it. There’s not a single meeting of the Government, of the Economic Council, or of these committee we have created, that goes by without their creative ideas about what should be done: pedestrian path here, pedestrian path there, aqua parks… I don’t know what we are doing. I mean, we are lunatics. We are lunatics! What we are doing is not normal. We should understand that it’s not normal.
GJ: This situation is idiotic.
ZS: We are lunatics. We spend on chocolate, but don’t have bread at home, that’s what we are doing.
GJ: That’s exactly what we are doing. Look, we are cutting down, consciously we behave irrationally. We have reduced basic operations under the minimum, they are not even at the bare minimum, while on the other side, we build ‘I don’t know what’. Our state is not functioning.